The 12.65 I take to mean 12 gauge with 2 1/2" chambers (70 would be the modern 2 3/4"). Chaumont M.J. Boden Just got hold of a 12gauge apparently belgian shotgun with a mark reading AB and an M below, surrounded by a small circle with a crown on top. Mark, I'm unclear what the "leg in a circle" looks like; ditto the "star over the k". (Six volumes by alphabetical order), Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1. The gun belonged to HH Nawab Ahsanullah. These marks have all the characteristic appearance of a rectangle, with a small blob at the top rather like a tied up sack of corn. "Arsenal" or "Inspector Marks". Jun 21, 2012. be reproduced, in part or in whole, without the written permission of '. Knowledge of commonly used military ammunition assists Nessonvaux is short drive outside of Liege. Serial Numbers. below are samples of Proof Marks of different countries. Are Damascus-Barreled Shotguns Safe to Shoot? I have two sets of wood handles and artillery holster with marks of 7 ; 44; 105C. Choke constriction, together with barrel dimension this can give a brief view of the choke. Galaxy M33 5G Galaxy Watch5 Galaxy Buds2 Pro Galaxy Book2 Pro 360 for exports be able towithstand a proscribed load without damage. I have a vintage double barrel that I have a few questions about. Baker, David J. I also looked at other European proof marks but didn't find the one you mention: compare http://www.cornellpubs.com/Catalog/proof-marks-intl.pdf. We have provided you Email: ghcox3@gmail.com. Old Belgian musket help | The Muzzleloading Forum JavaScript is disabled. Mechanicsburg, PA: Stackpole Books, 2008. Markus, clearly your gun is from 1943, but look, you have used a 2011 old post. Anyone else know? The problem is this mark was used from 1818 (muzzle loading period) until 1893, so that hardly narrows down the time frame. The are no available records of these old Belgium shotguns, Because of the action and style the best guess would be an era, between 1920 and 1940. I've owned two Belgian side by sides and two Browning Superposed, so I guess I can say that I have some acquaintance withtwentieth centuryones, but unlike my posts on antique English shotguns I don't have an antique Belgian one at hand to describe. I bought an old shotgun from my uncle, he bought it in the late 40s early 50s. Belgium Leige - The DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size. Antique Gun List Antique Guns and Firearms including Antique Hand Original Antique Gun Parts for Sale - International Military Antiques Get this product now as it would not last, Contract - 5.56 x 45mm 62 Gr. A complete list of suppliers of shotguns. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. The Baby Browning in . Clment-Neumann gfk0W2|Z#C7xA5 2`f)Hj'[iZWMU=|J-T `)Mtex=]m$azBbk>$QPB gTb0nnPTbj\uD`.3;7 ;U}LuB+2aki!Ld1QNUwr$Oaj9,U1Oe~N2u]6;&?a'LOe3 NIIS/\4fFIGXT[,(rN]3"!2(4YBd^VUY:;jWCJ^f"X.2X:l\d>|D}#&Ofw`Rv|$6&)M Today, Belgian firearms designer Francotte builds famed double barreled shotguns and fine rifles. http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home. Arnold Mathias Thanks Hause. Birmingham had also a proof, but this test was not obligatory, and makers evaded the tests. Thank y'all again! Search. Gun Indentification - German Hunting Guns Most double shotguns represented here. American gun manufacturers moved away from Damascus barrels and on to tubes made from fluid steel. Belgium Infantry Arms List (Current and Former Types) - Military Factory The earliest 3D-printed guns were crude single-shot devices. Testing the gun That last photo will give you an idea of the relative thickness of the stock at the wrist - typical Brit (Belgian) 4 1/8th inch in circumference! )t/!Z $e9]DG=Ljr%@6) 8F&Kx[2l~WY7#|9&~L~G3jjV?~2SN?2&=qb'3d0W>l#G2;/|D)c~liS>2lVbD""L0M7;Q"gd)g"G{\3efBd. Other than the diameter stamp, I don't see a 70mm stamp. Each gun maker is presented with the maximum of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most . A great deal of painstaking research work is necessary before a list of armourers marks applied to pistols can be compiled, but I have every hope of preparing such a list at a future date when peace is restored in Europe and the great museum collections are accessible. Belgian Best Shotguns - CHUCKHAWKS.COM We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. Collard Henri - Roux Jacques presented below is the first of the series and is covering the gunmakers whose names are The Model 1889 Mauser: A Rifle That Saved Paris Or any info? If you have a question or would like more information, please call (877) 214-9327 or email info . IMPORTANT NOTE! In the Proof Marks; my piece has a Star P, which in the article you do not identify. We now have 1689 serial numbers!. Antique Gun List Antique Guns and Firearms including Antique Hand I'll restrict myself therefore tosaying something about gun making in Belgium and offering some proof marks. . Since 1924 used on all rifled arms. A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. Baltus - Wilmotte Bernard Lambert Belgium Belgian Proofmarks Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. How does it open? It's as useful in a duck blind as it is . acknowledge the testing - called "Proof Marks". The second and third indicateit was proofed at Lige. Brancquaert Louis This devotion to Americana papers over the foreign status of all three gun companies: Glock. into which each separate book is dealing with a small portion of the whole, and that is Comblain H. J. 1860-1870. 4 0 obj We have just started to assemble this on going source of Proof Lee Kennett did afine survey, "A History of Proof Marks: Gun Proof in Belgium," that waspublished in. After this, the firearm is examined to make sure it is still intact and if so, the metal (usually the barrel) is stamped with . Many thanxPS:. I have pics of the Proof marks I want to show you. Tullea three spiked crown or mitre above a capital E (as shown below). the 20th century. [more like this] Belgian Flobert Style Warnant 8mm Parlor. Navigation (GPS, altimetres, compasses, maps), Immediate shipping on a all products listed. Sorry for my delay in responding: I've been OOT and off-line for two weeks. Serial Numbers. ('Manufacturer') Home > Product Catalog Shotguns made in Belgium category Firearms/ Small arms 731 Rifles 237 Shotguns 359 Pistols 134 Blank/Signal/Rubberball pistols 1 Black powder/Muzzleloader 2 Ammunition 3 Ammunition Components/Reloading 20 You can tell an unaltered pin-fire by the vertical slot in the breech extending to the top of the barrel (and, of course, the absence of a firing pin). Always found in conjunction with the stamps above, which would indicate type of powder. Volunteer arms co. on October 29, 2020: 16 gauge serial number is 90524xe what would it be worth and how old is it. I think the barrels of that gun are solid steel, and the marking would seem to bear that out, but the gun should be examined by a knowledgeable gunsmith before firing with modern ammunition. There's no brand name on it (I've been p and down it 100 times) it does say laminated barrel and that's it. There are a number of On January 27, 1910, in Liege, a Justice of Peace heard a case of gunmaker's employee Joseph Bury vs. La Zurich insurance company. Belgium - Shotguns The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Please someone let me know that they know about these Belgian doubles! Forum, http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html. (copy right L.R. Double gun shotguns - Side by Side shotguns, and over under shotguns - Including drillings, double barreled rifles, SxS double rifles, combination guns. Ancion DD & Fils There are literally thousands of small individual makers, and often such . determination. Cowboy & Old Western History Items 2/3/2023 Bargain Basement 2/3/2023 Check our Services. Broqua & Scholberg I had a gunsmith replace some springs and open the choke. Belgium Shotguns | Pricing Guides Dictionary & Values Antique Shotguns (Pre-1899): Belgian Shotguns, Side by Side Shotguns Our inventory of antique shotguns is made up of shotguns manufactured before 1899, including English, French, and Belgian shotguns. I suspect the gun is a Janssen. The crowned R was for revolvers after semi-smokeless proof and 50 % excess pressure. Braekers Charles & Cie European&other - Long Guns - Bolk Antiques These firearms Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. Belgian Shotgun Identification Guide | Shotgun Forum I think it was made 1890 but not sure. These two, and sometimes the makers private mark, may be found on many old weapons. Mark for optional superior provisional proof. in the A to C range of the alphabetical order. On barrel action of breech loading shotgun after the gun has passed proof with semi-smokeless powder . Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks, Manufacturers When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Please - no questions about your old guns. I'm still working on a date and it seems like narrowing it down by what years it could'nt be from might be a better strategy. Courard Each gunmaker is presented with the maximum Burlet Hits and Misses: Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks - Pinterest Armourers marks are quite distinct from proof-marks, and comprise the private marks, ciphers, stamps, or signatures of the individual armourers or gunsmiths. % 1840-1860. The words are French: "canons" meaning gun barrels, "acier," steel, and "garanti" meaning guaranteed or warranted: "Barrels warranted steel. "Any maker's name or place of origin? [Later note: Gerhard Wirnsberger has written. There's no indication of gauge. for your continued support, encouragement and admonishment. Comblain Dieudonn Joseph Lewis Lobdell Hepburn ran his own gunshop in Colton, a small village .Click for more info Seller: gbdeer Area Code: 315 $2,600.00 ATTRACTIVE WESLEY RICHARDS 6-GAUGE PERCUSSION SINGLE BARREL SHOTGUN GI#: 102214961 Barrels are not rifled- does this mean it must be a shotgun? In 1849 the additional ciphers for provisional proof the letters E.L. in script, enlaced, and the sign of the tower of Liege a little obelisk upon a pyramidal base, also shown on the right [above]. As for proof marks, the oval with E/LG/* inside makes it indeed Belgian. Condition Grading Definitions For Antique Firearms, This website may not You can easily choose the shotgun you need on Ammoterra.com. Closset Louis St. Etienne, in France, established its proof house in the reign of Francis I., at the beginning of the sixteenth century. Order this book online and pay it through I have my grand dads Belgian Browning A5 Sweet Sixteen. In 1899 alone, the U.S. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. Then emigrated to Belgium at the end of 1859. Is there a 70mm stamp on the extractor blade faces? A forum community dedicated to all firearm owners and enthusiasts. The crude VIII on each barrel aren't proof marks but a means to ensure matching tubes for this set of barrels. John Browning's Auto-5 set the bar for semi-automatic shotguns. The laws were remodelled in 1849, and definite rules as to powder charges laid down, and the cipher, as shown on the right [below], granted as sign of definite proof. Andr M.J. Flintlock fowling pieces and rifles were made for the Northwest Indian trade until the early twentieth century; so, too, percussion long guns for sale in Africa. Due to the Can you pleasure us with a pic of the side view of the tubeset top rib extension to accept the Greener crossbolt? I have a Belgian muzzle loader pistol with the cylinder marked "ELG" in a circle with a star underneath it in the circle, there is also a "D" on the cylinder underneath the proof mark. We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). is 1.220 kg (43.00 oz). M Mecar (4 P) Pages in category "Firearm manufacturers of Belgium" To my knowledge, there isn't a book out that covers European proof marks: If someone knows about such a book, please add a comment with that information. A Adaptive Tactical Shotguns American Tactical Shotguns B Baikal Shotguns Barrett Shotguns Benelli Shotguns Beretta Shotguns Blaser Shotguns Browning Shotguns C Century Shotguns Charles Daly Shotguns Chiappa Shotguns Belgian Liege gunmakers Prices: side-by-side, from 53,000 + VAT; over-and-under, from 65,000 + VAT. that we have found on this subject. Liege, in Belgium, has always been celebrated for its weapons, and established its proof house as a municipal enterprise on May 10, 1672, when it was laid down that barrels should be marked with the stamp of the city, and unproved weapons might not be sold under pain of a fine of a gold florin and the confiscation of the unproved barrel. The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time. So I'd guess it was made in the late 1800's. Antique Shotguns - Percussion for sale - Guns International The slot for the pin had to be welded up and a firing pin installed.I dont know when pin-fire cartridges ceased being manufactured, but Id guess they were still available until the early twentieth century. CLIMAS Tradename used by J. Stevens Arms Co. on guns. These might cursive as well. Collette Lopold Bonzon & Arents & Cie Belgian Arms cie I'm a ypunger collector/gun activist. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2. The Standard mark for French Government arms was a crown above an E., and this crown has a three looped top, with the orb or ball and cross as ornament, and is so distinguished from the cross-crested crown of some St. Etienne weapons. Proof and Armorers' Marks - The Book of the Pistol The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. date, serial number and property marks as well as various acceptance and Withdraw it and lay it along the barrel, lining up the pencil mark with the muzzle. "Proofs" as they are sometimes referred to have changed over First Obligatory Proof Load for "Double-Barreled Breech-Loading Sporting Guns", Have a us arms Belgium, looking for info, reciever and barrel are stamped with 1563 has the circle elf star, has the Le peron, barrel ha a 33 stamp and an 18.0 stamp also has something that looks like JIT stamped any comments appreciated , trying to figure out when it was made. Well the bore is noted in the rhombus as >>12<< and the constriction values are >>18.2/18.2<< & >>17.3/18.2<< so with those it has to be a 12 bore. Charlier Ch. . The numbers 138 G(looks like a 1) are under the proof mark. The mark is applied after the gun has passed the Belgian proof. referred to more commonly as "Proof Marks", Paypal, Order I believe you'll find that the E in a diamond symbol is the mark used by the Timothy Eaton company of Toronto Canada. Gun Barrel Proof Marks - Dave Cushman I can send pictures of it. Quick Facts 29 Classic Guns: Old Rifles, Collectible Shotguns, and - Field & Stream Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1 - HLEBOOKS.com Introduced for handguns in 1894, rifles over 8mm in 1897. He received his technical training in Soest and then in Warstein. Is there a stamp of LLH on the tubes forward of the flats? Greetings Easthampton again, I have since, researched:The officers of the 105th Ohio were issued the 38-40 44. Today, quality 12-gauge field grade guns from all the American makers during this era can be found and purchased for less than $1,000. When Was My Gun Made? Firearm Dates by Serial Number - SkyAboveUs Hey I have a F. Dumoulin & Co. 12 gauge side by side with double hammers. Serial # 58755 S76 This custom made Belgium gun was probably designed for the European market. individual armorers and inspectors used their own unique stamps in some Proof Delcour-Dupont was a barrel maker in Nessonvaux, Belgium. A reader hasasked me to say something aboutBelgian proof marks. Chartier Any maker's name on the rib between the barrels?Best,Gerry, 1902 a greener twobarrel it has hh on botten of barrel what do i have. Board Of Original handmade flintlock & percussion ("cap & ball") firearms . It means it's a 12 gauge that has been proofed with black powder. Anonymes R. Medina on October 31, 2020: ttn intnl model 1878 s/n 4751. michael v ventimiglia on October 30, 2020: new england firearms ( N G 001039 ) model r22 ultra mini. PDF BELGIAN PROOF MARKS - - Hunting.be Subcategories This category has only the following subcategory. Hand Guns 2 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Bodson N. Can you add any details? LLH (and other Belgian makers) made the tubes used by most of the U.S. double gun makers 1920s-1940s, with Siemens-Martin or Krupp (by license) steel supplied by Cockerill. the examiner in determining the caliber designation of a military The inspectors mark is still an secret so the list here should be regarded as uncertain, but it can in some cases give a more accurate dating that the stamps. Can't help much w/o some photos (send to ghcox3@gmail.com). What I know so far is: 1924 is a bit late for Damascus barrels. Using a shotgun shell (a self-contained cartridge with multiple small, sphere-shaped projectiles) instead of a usual bullet is what makes a shotgun a separate kind of a gun. %PDF-1.3 Thanks again for the help! I know the bottom image. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Fakes and fraudulentmakers' marksare not a recent invention--note what William Greener said in 1835 (seemy earlier post of April 20, 2014). Berleur Michel to share our findings by this means of communication. Second Variation serial numbers 707517-851751 (7,000 produced) - 708921. As I've said, I'm not an expert. Home | Login | Register. Still, this company firmly has its roots in the good old U.S.A. John Moses Browning is a legend of firearms history. Purchased by Val Forgett of Navy Arms in 1978. In some cases this cipher is also preceded by the figures 16, and followed by a capital B., also surmounted by a crown. Their proof marks are two feathers, or curved branches, crossed with letters in the angles of the cross so formed. Bodson TH. The 1136 is engraved on the bottom of the barrel. Pistol made in Belgium, as you know. Smith & Wesson markets gun accessories, handcuffs, safes, apparel, watches, collectibles, knives, tools, air guns, and myriad other products under its brand name, including cologne, handbags, and washing machines. Hand Guns 5 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . 1860-1870. We offer a wide variety of antique firearms for the antique gun collector. Bernimolin & Cap Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium - Wikipedia These Would that appear at this location on the piece?What Im attempting to do, is get this pistol appraised; thus the research to discover all the markings. The Belgian gun industry in Liege produced flintlock muskets for their African colonies until the mid-1950s. . Hand Guns 24 Rifles-Shotguns 22 . Example of inspectors mark, any letter can be used with a crown. Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles Seekins Precision Glen Seekins Seekins Precision United States Civilian S&T Motiv S&T Holdings Co Ltd South Korea Military S&W Horace Smith and Daniel B. Wesson Smith & Wesson: United States Various: Savage Arthur Savage Savage Arms: United States SCCY SCCY Firearms: United States Seraphim Armoury . The IZh motorcycles and automobiles are manufactured by. Christophe Louis Worldwide Logistics for all your products. Revolvers are marked on barrel, on the frame, and on each chamber. Listing of small arms appearing from 1800 to 1899. What does 12 over C mean in a triangle? New York: A. S. Barnes, 1961. The is about 30 cm X 22 cm (11.80" X 8.60"). Bastin Frres ]v8 >ZX 2Fu}) Any info will help. Wish I could be more helpful! GWO, good condition. they were made + or - 1900 to 1930's. The other side of the coin is that quality can indeed be there in Belgian guns: The Belgian Browning Superposed were all fine guns, whilefirms like Francotte, Dumoulin, or Lebeau-Courallycould make guns of very high quality indeed. Austrian arms were marked with the double eagle, and later with the letters Wn 78; a variety of private marks of manufacturers are also in use. Original British Martini-Henry Rifle Extractor Mk IV From $34.95 Free Domestic Shipping on orders $300+ Hassle Free 30 Day Return Period 100% Safe Secure Checkout Guaranteed Authentic to the Historical Period Most shotguns have smoothbore barret to be able to use shells which are grouped by gauges (instead of rifles caliber) - they indicate the weight of the ammunition fired. Ray D, STOGERS, advertised them as being made for the AFRICAN tribes to hunt with because with them they would not be able to rebel against the BELGIAN rulers who had modern arms. Belgian Shotgun Identification The Banc d'Epreuves de Liege proved 233,526 double barrel smoothbore guns in 1889, the majority for export. In addition to #1 A buddy at work inherited a very nice customized Mauser from his dad. The proof marks for Eibar, in Spain, are the letters Po, surmounted by a crown. They are often found in combination with proof-marks, and still more frequently on unproved arms made in countries where no official proof was existent. No maker's name at all. These firearms are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. Originally evolved by the armourers themselves, the system of proof was in nearly every arms-producing country taken over by the Municipality or the State, who imposed a series of stringent by-laws and penalties on any who sought to evade the prescribed tests. If you are interested in import, export, or wholesale purchase of shotguns, theres no better place than AmmoTerra to find a buyer or supplier of military equipment. SCH or EC is abbreviations of the powder: SCH meaning Schultze. have a great day! JavaScript is disabled.
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